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[personal profile] meddow
So, stuff that happened: Worf! The Klingons go nuts and attack Cardassia and then Deep Space Nine itself. Jake spends a lifetime saving his father, causing me to cry a lot. Bashir pulls rank on O'Brien. Kira talks Dukat have an adventure and messed up UST. Dax falls in love with her ex-wife, and Trek handles its first same-sex kiss with maturity. Quark, Nog and Rom visit Roswell, New Mexico. Worf and Dax go questing. Dr Bashir prefers his drinks shaken, not stirred. Sisko's mentor doesn't know that you can only pull off a successful coup on television if your name is Laura Roslin. Odo is Mr. Brightside. Kira and Dukat go Klingon hunting and have more messed up UST. There's another Klingon episode (oh, my god, am I sick of Klingons). Rom forms a union. Sisko's status a the Emissary is challenged. There's a not all that bad Klingon episode. O'Brien of course, gets tortured. The mirror universe would be tired if it was not still so cracktastic. I wonder if anybody informed Deanna Troi that Odo's her step daddy (surely Worf would tell her). In an episode in which Sisko is forced to send Kassidy to prison, Eddington puts the boot in. Weyoun finally arrives. Bashir's ego is both a deep character flaw and his greatest strength. Kira joins the O'Brien family. And the Founders try Odo.

I adore Worf within the TNG crew and when I started watching DS9, I was quite excited with the thought of Worf turning up. By the time he turned up, I didn't think the series needed him. I'd fallen in love with the crew and didn't think he would add much to the dynamic. But I was open to him winning me over. He didn't.

I mean, besides a love interest for Dax, what does Worf really add that wasn't already filled out by other characters? The role of stand-offish outsider was easily filled by Odo, and quick to battle second filled by Kira. And then they kind of made the chain of command all weird by having Worf the second in command on the Defiant, and Kira second in command on DS9. How would that work in the real world? Each giving the other orders based on what space they're in? Okay, that's a minor nitpick, but it really bugged me.

Also not helped is the added Klingon storylines. While I do like Worf, Klingons on the whole bore me senseless at best and bug the crap out of me at the worst. What really annoys me is the moral dissonance. The show goes to great lengths to portray the Cardassian and Dominion imperialism as wrong and the Bajorans retaliatory acts of terrorism as grey at best. Kira, Dukat and Garak are all characters with violent pasts who don't get passes for it. But then the Klingon's arrived and it's all 'oh, those crazy Klingons and their warrior culture and love of violence, don't you love 'em.' That's what always bugs me, Klingons have always gotten a violence pass because they're Klingons and no other species on the show does.

And then with Dax tied into Worf, most the Dax episodes became Klingon episodes and, come on, I like Dax as a character, but in the last two seasons there's only been one Dax episode I'd re-watch, which is Rejoined. That was a fantastic episode, managing to use the whole concept multiple lives to create some wonderful character drama to great effect. And I loved how re-associating thing created an nice metaphor of a homophobic society while at the same time, not a single character batted an eyelash about the thought of Dax being in love with a woman. Nicely done DS9.

Kira got some really nice character development this season, particularly in Return to Grace. My post about last season said that Kira only really had two storylines, this was whole new one, with Kira facing a return to her past life and choosing to save someone she views as like herself. And the fact that that person she saved is half-Cardassian and the daughter of a man she hates shows how far she's come since the first season.

Also, wow did the Dukat-Kira relationship become complicated. And also wow, Dukat is really something. First we get him telling Kira how she to him is the personification of the new Bajor in Indiscretion, then we get him desperately seeking her approval in Return to Grace. Essentially, he created a society that has become damaged and walled by his cruelty, and then he wants to hear it tell him how it approves of him and even admires him. How twisted can a person be? Good thing Kira's got a good head on her shoulders. But then, he's so charming. That relationship is wickedly messed up. More please.

Something I've been thinking about is would Kira's backstory be quite the same if DS9 was made today. Certainly, I can't imagine her being described as a terrorist so readily if DS9 was made today, just because the word has taken on much more sinister connotations in the past decade.

I loved the first mirror universe episode, but I'm quickly becoming sick of the mirrorverse. There's always moments of cracky brilliance, but wouldn't it be more interesting to explore another mirror universe – what with there being infinite parallel universes and everything. You know what I would like to see? An alt universe story about a universe where the Cardassian occupation of Bajor never happened and DS9 as a result was never built and the wormhole never discovered, but with Sisko destined to be the Emissary anyway. Yeah, its the alt!team get together and set events into action because events are supposed to happen storyline. It's been done 25 million times before, but I never get sick of it.

In terms of favourite episodes, you can all probably gather I loved Indiscretion, Return to Grace and Rejoined. Our Man Bashir is of course fantastic. Starship Down, Little Green Men, Accession and For the Cause also stood out. But of course, The Visitor was part of this season. It's the first time I've seen that episode, and it certainly does deserve its reputation for being one of the (if not the) best episodes of Star Trek ever. It was just perfect.

I know that season five moves away from the Klingon conflict and moves the show towards open conflict with the Dominion. I can't wait.

Date: 2010-03-24 04:00 am (UTC)
erinpuff: (Miles and Julian 2)
From: [personal profile] erinpuff
"The Visitor" made me cry SO HARD.

I seem to recall that I skipped over a lot of the Klingon-centric episodes. :o I am fond of Worf, but I like him better when he's not around other Klingons.

A fun thing to watch for in season 5 is in-jokes about Alexander Siddig being the real-life father of Nana Visitor's real-life baby. There's a particularly good one in the first episode, IIRC.

Date: 2010-03-24 04:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meddow.livejournal.com
Me too. That episode is such a tear jerker.

I agree completely when it comes to Worf. The stuff about him dealing with the switch to command was great. I wish there was more about that and less about his honour and dull family problems.

I'm glad they get some in-jokes in there. The whole baby situation is hilarious.

Date: 2010-03-24 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scifiaddict86.livejournal.com
Hi I have no idea if you know me or not but I found your journal while looking for BSG stuff and I love DS9 so I thought I'd share a few thoughts.

First off I forgive some of the annoyingness of Worf intro when Martok comes to the show cuz Martok is AWESOME. Seriously he makes up for every boring moment of that episode about Worf's brother non-suicide.

For the Cause remains one of my all time favourite episodes of Trek, I love Sisko's angst over Cassidy's defection. Eddington's turn and that speech he gives make up for his whole boring waste of a character. Plus the scene between Kira and Garak is one of the funniest things in the series. That whole subplot is comedy gold and its cute to see Garak befuddled for once.

Honestly I never quite loved The Visitor you always know Jake's going to succeed so I could never really care about it that way some did. Although I did love Jake's later encounter with the Klingon's I have little use for the character in general I always found Nog much more interesting. Although that may have to do with my joining the series much later in the run instead of watching from the beginning.

Date: 2010-03-24 04:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meddow.livejournal.com
Hi. Nice to meet you.

For the Cause was a really great episode. Eddington's speech was just fantastic. And the way they handled Kasidy and Sisko was wonderful. I just loved the way they accepted that for them to be together, she would have to suffer the consequences of her actions, and she accepted that. And yes, Garak's dating angst was one of the funniest sub-plots of the show to date. Best bit is Quark pointing out that Kira may well be in on the plot, completely bursting poor Garak's bubble.

There is the problem episodes like The Visitor that the fact that the status quo has to be in place at the end removes the tension, but I thought the character stuff more than made up for that problem. I do think Nog's a bit of a more interesting character than Jake though, as well.

Date: 2010-03-26 02:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
I think you can tell that the Klingon s4 plots were already done by TNG, and better (Sons of Mogh versus Reunion? No contest). And the break-up between Klingons and Federation was simply because Worf needed a justification to be there, with the two of them becoming allies again just as sudden so we can get back to the Dominion War plot in s5. However, I do adore s4, for the many episodes I loved in it.

Something I've been thinking about is would Kira's backstory be quite the same if DS9 was made today. Certainly, I can't imagine her being described as a terrorist so readily if DS9 was made today, just because the word has taken on much more sinister connotations in the past decade.

Heh. [livejournal.com profile] skywaterblue dared me to write meta on DS9 in a post 9/11 world many years ago, i.e. in 2003, and I did. The way DS9 handles Kira and her past is a big part of my essay, as you can imagine. If you don't mind being spoiled a bit for the rest of the show, I can link you.

Dukat: quite. More self-pimping: "Five things that didn't happen between Kira and Dukat" was my attempt to capture all the emotional mess and complexity of the relationship, and the characters.

Rejoined: back when this was broadcast, I had my first rude awakening to the differences between European and American fandom, because there were a lot of angry letters in the sci fi magazines, and some asked things like "what's next, Garak and a sheep?", which made me go ?!!!!, and was my first clue homophobia was alive and well even among geeks. BTW, Avery Brooks directed that episode and did a good job with it, imo.

Our Man Bashir is my favourite Bond story, ever. Well, maybe except for Casino Royale. :) Little Green Men is the explanation for the Roswell incident. And The Visitor is something else, truly.

And now you know where the dialogue from my icon comes from.:)

And here's the link

Date: 2010-03-26 04:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
...if you don't mind some spoilers for later seasons, that is:

DS9 and Terrorism: Viewing the Show in a post 9/11 World (http://community.livejournal.com/ds9agogo/55525.html)

Date: 2010-03-28 12:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meddow.livejournal.com
Oh, I love that root beer metaphor (although, I struggle a bit with it having never ever met a person who drinks root beer).

Thanks for linking me to your meta. I agree with it and don't have much to add other than seven years down the track after it was written, I think little has changed in that I don't think Kira would be get the same background she had if the show was made today, anymore than it would have if made in 2003. While BSG did go down that route with Saul Tigh on New Caprica , I don't think a show would be brave (or if one is, that there is a network brave enough) to have a major character portrayed that way from their introduction. It's quite a shame really, but also makes DS9 all that more brilliant for providing us with that wonderful discussion of those issues that are out there and more relevant than ever but have also in there increased relevancy become so sensitive cannot be really portrayed in all its shades of grey today. It was a show ahead of it's time.

(Thinking about it, Kira and S3-onward Saul have remarkable similar character arc, except with Saul having a different resolution to his Second Skin revelation).

because there were a lot of angry letters in the sci fi magazines, and some asked things like "what's next, Garak and a sheep?"

Really? Wow. I would have though the reaction would be more positive given that Kirk/Spock is the father of all slash pairings.

Date: 2010-03-28 08:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Saul Tigh is a good comparison. Did you know that Second Skin was originally supposed to end with Kira actually being Iliana, but choosing to remain Kira because Kira is who she is now? Nana Visitor protested, because she wanted Kira to remain Bajoran, so they rewrote the episode.

Speaking of Nana Visitor... so, did you recognize her as Emily (the other cancer patient Laura Roslin is bonding with in Faith)?

Really? Wow. I would have though the reaction would be more positive given that Kirk/Spock is the father of all slash pairings.

It made me realise that slash fandom is (or was, back then, at least) just a tiny percentage of overall fandom. But then, you know, I still have encounters with men who say "I can't believe you liked ST as a teen/ like ST as an adult! I'd never thought any girls liked sci-fi!" So...

Date: 2010-03-28 10:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meddow.livejournal.com
I read that at Memory Alpha. Personally, I would have loved for the ending to have been left ambiguous. But then Kira works as something of a child of both worlds without being a Cardassian anyway. It's hard to take anything Dukat says seriously, but his statement about her being born out of the Cardassian occupation fits.

I went back and re-watched that episode of BSG a couple of weeks ago. She is almost unrecognisable (but then she was in cancer make-up). With Michelle Forbes being BSG's other Trek guest star of note, RDM really should have found a way to get Louise Fletcher on the show as well (*cough*Laura'sMother*cough*), then Trek's trio of Bajoran women you do not want to mess with would be complete.

I'd never thought any girls liked sci-fi!

Ugh. It mystifies me how that perception continues to exist.

Date: 2010-03-28 02:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
DS9 does some great things with Ziyal, Kira and Dukat and the whole child of both worlds thing in early s6, I'll get back to you once you've watched that.

I went back and re-watched that episode of BSG a couple of weeks ago. She is almost unrecognisable (but then she was in cancer make-up).

Not having paid attention to the credits, it took me near half the episode to get a hang on "where do I know her voice from?!?". But it was a great guest role for her.

(My other relatively recent "shame on me for not spotting the DS9 actor at once!" moment was in Merlin, s.1.10 where I also spent half the episode before clueing in to the fact that the evil warlord of the week was played by Our Man Bashir.)

(Sidenote: poor Alexander Siddig aka Sidding El Fadil. First he changes his name so he won't get stuck with ethnic roles, then his post-DS9 career mostly has him stuck with Arab terrorists or suspected-as-terrorists or medieval Arabs anyway. The Merlin role is actually sort of a break as he's an English warlord.)

Laura's mother would have been the perfect role for Louise Fletcher to play, oh yes!


Ugh. It mystifies me how that perception continues to exist.


Quite. But it does. Note: one of the ways you can tell Galaxy Quest was written by someone who knows better is that women and men, girls and boys are in equal numbers at the convention.

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