Just When You Thought It Was Safe...

[meddow]

Even more on Journey’s End. I've done all my grumbling now, so just a few things I forgot to celebrate and a trying to work out a few questions it raised.

1. I know I've complained about that scene undermining the fear for the Daleks that was re-established by TSE and that it technobabble was a lame plot resolution, but I love Donna defeating the Daleks so freaking much. It's just much fun. That scene never gets old.

2. Does the DoctorDonna make Catherine Tate the first female Doctor? I know we’ve had female Doctors in various non-canon media, but this would be the first time on the TV show the Doctor, or a least part of the Doctor has been portrayed by a woman, I think. Well, SJA cleared up the UNIT dating controversy, not to mention with series four, looms and whether or not he's half human have now been cleared up. I think we need a where Blue!Doctor and DoctorDonna are official Doctors controversy to replace the controversies fandom has lost.

And, you know, between Journey’s End and the SJA, there’s a rather strong argument for Girl!Doctor.

(I do seriously thing that it might be a good idea to bring back Catherine Tate for a two-parter, have DoctorDonna return and go off without the Doctor and have her travel around time and space saving planets and all that. Figure out a way to make her regenerate and you could have her show up every now and again, played by different actresses, and just imply that she and the Doctor keep on meeting each other out of order. She could be Helen Mirren one series as DoctorDonna Four, Keeley Hawes as DoctorDonna Seven the next, followed by Naomi Harris and DoctorDonna Three after that and Catherine Tate back again some time after that as the original).

3. Did the Doctor actually reverse what had happened to Donna when he wiped her mind? Because, logically, if he actually erased the knowledge and the memories, Donna could never actually physically remember and the knowledge could never physically return so telling her is not an issue at all.

Except for: "Because if she remembers, just for a second, she'll burn up."

This means she has the capacity to remember, which implies he suppressed it, or that what was wiped is capable of being repaired by Donna's brain.

Besides, there was some glowy yellow eye action happening when Donna became the DoctorDonna but none when he did whipping or whatever and the laws of science fiction as I understand them require whatever special effects happened in establishment to have to happen in disestablishment or it's not properly disestablished.

Okay, theory I'm working with is that deep in the recesses of the mind of Donna Noble is the DoctorDonna, who is lying dormant. The only way to awaken the DoctorDonna is for Donna to consciously remember she was the DoctorDonna as the memories act as a bridge between her conscious mind and that dormant DoctorDonna bit. Without the bridge, the DoctorDonna cannot awaken, remerge and destroy her mind.

4. Moving on from the DoctorDonna, I forgot to mention it earlier, but I loved so much that it was Sarah Jane pointing out that the Doctor had the largest family on Earth, because family being a collection of people who love you no matter whether you're traditionally related or not is what she learnt herself on SJA.

5. I have decided that there was another unspoken reason why Blue!Doctor was left with Rose: because somebody needs to stop her from tearing a hole in the universe again. I can't believe the Doctor didn't call her up on that one. Or at least call Mickey and Jackie on it (because he would snap at them rather than the actual culprit if the actual culprit is Rose).

6. Another thing I forgot to do earlier: DAVID MORRISSEY! BLACKPOOL REUNION! SQUEEEE! I demand singing in the Christmas special.

And in something not related to DW, but SJA: SJA casting spoilers for the win! OMG! SQUEE!

Comments

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

Have you seen the photos for the casting spoilers? I am so damned excited by the prospect it's ridiculous. Esp since I have met/spoken with/had drinks with said person in the past and so it's doubly cool. There'd been talk about it for the past week or so but then those fabulous set reporter boys came bearing actually photographic evidence! *swoons*

The one thing that really confuses me about Donna's Brain and Burn Out is that the Master has taken over people's bodies in the past. First in "Keeper of Traken" and then Eric Roberts in the TVM. Granted it's the TVM, but given that he had no body and it was pretty much his Time Lord essence in a human body, how come he was never ever in danger of suffering burnout, and yet Donna is?

I'm surprised no one's raised that point anywhere.

I think that DoctorDonna has to be lying dormant and the Doctor just put a block on it all so it didn't all come pouring out. It's just one of those awful catch-22s where if she remembers, it will kill her. But to not remember makes her dead anyway. *sigh*

[meddow.livejournal.com]

I have seen the photos. I'm ridiculously excited as well since I adore said character to pieces. And I really excited about the other character too since said other character was quite excellent first time around.

I've only seen the TV movie once, wasn't he planning to eventually take over the Doctor's body? So maybe the Master knew a human could only hold a Time Lord consciousness for a certain length of time, or the Master's found a way around the problem that the Doctor doesn't know of. (KoT could be hand waived by saying that Trakenite brains are more compatible or something, I suppose).

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

Oh, I adore the character too. I squeed when I read the first rumoured report last week, but today just knocked my socks off. I was really hoping and praying that s/he'd make a return before too long!

It's been a while since I've seen the TVM. I do own it on dvd (it's only available on R2 iirc) but can't remember where I put it (oops). I should really try and rewatch it. I still do love Paul McGann (even if I just listened to "The Horror of Glam Rock" yesterday and was underwhelmed by the story itself). I can't remember now if he was going to take over the Doctor or not. Just that he inhabited Eric Robert's body because he was in desperate need of one and ER was just some poor schmuck who was a cop or an EMT guy or something. I am going to go with "The Master's found a way around the problem..." because it actually is good fodder for fic. Not that I am capable of writing DW fic very often, mind you. But it's the thought that counts!

Btw, what do you make of the observations about Donna's ring getting all flashy at the end while she's on the phone. I am still torn between "it was just a neat coincidence with the set lights" and "it means something". I hate jumping at straws because after all the insane fan theories that were being put out the past few months, I just don't want to go there.

[meddow.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's much to the ring. I really don't think there's any plans in the works to ever bring Donna back. It's nice for fanfic. Although personally I've come up with my own way of bringing Donna back involving a certain amoral Time Lord scientist (I don't believe the Rani got involved in the Time War at all, she's out there somewhere).

[ragdoll.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's any plans in the works to ever bring Donna back. Which doesn't mean it might not happen some day (esp in the context of something like "The Three Doctors" or "The Five Doctors" or some future producer deciding to fix things because s/he was so traumatized by the situation as a young wo/man....) but prolly not. CT only wanted the year, Moffat deserved a (mostly) clean slate, RTD wanted to prove he could screw with poeple do something poignant...

Still, I'd rather cling to a return of Donna than the onslaught of "Rose/10.5 coming back" and/or growing their own TARDIS and having more adventures and/or Time Babiez piffle I've been seeing ad nauseum!
I could see the Rani showing up to screw with things too. :)

[meddow.livejournal.com]

My money is it being a School Reunion type episode from a producer traumatized as a teen. Unless the Moff really liked Donna and talk CT into a couple of episodes.

I think (and hope) Rose's story is well and truly over. Although 10.5 I hope make a return. I kind of want him to become evil, or seek out Donna or something. He's got a lot of potential.

[artic-fox.livejournal.com]

I'm totally all for the DoctorDonna as a dormant part of our Donna. Because as you pointed out, Ten wiped her memories, but in saying that she will burn up implied that she still has the capacity *too* burn up. Much like Rose and the Bad Wolf before Nine took it out...

I AM SO PSYCHED FOR DAVID MORRISSEY, OMG.

[meddow.livejournal.com]

Actually, whatever happened to the Bad Wolf? After Turn Left every fan theory seemed to contain the Bad Wolf, including my own, and it all came to nothing. It really must be just Rose's calling card.

I AM TOTALLY PSYCHED FOR DAVID MORRISSEY ALSO. It took me a couple of days to get there because of Donna, but I'm there now. Bring on Christmas!

[artic-fox.livejournal.com]

Yea, it sort of... wasn't anything. We all assumed it has something to do with Rose's presence, but she got there via Torchwood. As you said, just a calling card for the Doctor to know it was really her, I guess. Which is a shame because it is an awesome arc and lots could have been done with it.

ACK. CHRISTMAS SEEMS SO FAR AWAY.

[airie-fairy.livejournal.com]

Mwahaha! I stood alone and figured it'd come to nothing! I think they were just more of those warnings that got sent out for the event of crisis (possibly crises involving Rose) by the Bad Wolf in Parting of the Ways.

[meddow.livejournal.com]

*Bows to your predictive skills*

[alexiscartwheel.livejournal.com]

I definitely got the impression that Donna's memories were suppressed rather than completely erased, so there's huge fic potential to bring back the DoctorDonna. I doubt they'll bring her back on the show, but that possibilities at least there if someone ever wants to play with it.

Did Rose and Co tear the whole in the universe and start things collapsing, or did their dimension cannon suddenly start working because they were ahead of this universe, so everything was already collapsing? Her line about that seemed kind of unclear to me, like it could be read either way.

SJA and Christmas special casting are both AWESOME! :D (And even more awesome if there really were a musical number.)

[meddow.livejournal.com]

Seems everyone here is in agreement about the suppression, and I'm glad I'm not a minority opinion on it, because it does open up so many ways to bring her back.

I read it as it having started working when universes started collapsing, but they were still building the thing with the intention of tearing a hole in the universe. If they'd gotten it running, it would have been Doomsday 2.0.

I know there would be so many complaints from the fanboys, but I you'd hear me squeeing from the other side of the globe if there's singing in the Christmas special.

[airie-fairy.livejournal.com]

3) I think he hedged it all off to keep her from being able to access it. It's interesting that he didn't or couldn't wipe it completely, despite my understanding as to why he couldn't actually remove the source of the trouble from her, what with her very brain being re-encoded. My friend explained memories are not genetically encoded, which I guess is obvious enough, so maybe all you can actually do is suppress them.

4) EEEEEEEEEEEEE.

5) I've pretty much decided she was ripping through those walls with that device chiefly as an alt!Torchwood operative who recognized him to seek the Doctor's help to save all the universes. I found the dialogue ambiguous enough as I remember it to support this, and as a bonus it makes me not want to kill anyone.

[meddow.livejournal.com]

'Hedged' is a very good way of putting it. I wish they'd clarified what actually happened just a bit. It would seem that Blue!Doctor took on both Donna's genes and personality, which would imply Donna had some genetic rewiring of at least part of her brain (I'm going with part, because if she had a full Time Lord brain than surely she would be able to handle the knowledge without brain meltdown - so what was happening was the Time Lord bit was overwhelming and destroying the human bit), as well as taking on his knowledge, and the Doctor can't just mind meld genes away. I may though be getting way too hung up on this.

Presumably some higher ups at Torchwood has a mission for her beyond 'find your boyfriend'. It's probably like Donna's two motivations in PIC, she was both investigating Adipose to find out what was going on and attempting to find the Doctor. And if Alt!Torchwood is anything like actual Torchwood, they wouldn't take heed of the Doctor's warnings about travel through universes being bad. Actually, if Alt!Torchwood were going to blast a whole in the universe with Rose or without, it doesn't make it such a bad thing for Rose to be involved. And Blue!Doctor can sort them all out.

[airie-fairy.livejournal.com]

I totally think alt!Torchwood would take advantage of their link to the Doctor in case of crisis. Especially if reality was already collapsing, making slipping through the walls all the much easier and a choice of lesser evil.